This is BS.  Anyone in the 47% (i.e., no income tax liability) is pretty much covered under Obamacare Medicaid expansion.  Any of those increased “costs” that the good doctor mentions (which aren’t really costs, as they end up helping get health care costs to go down) simply get passed onto the payer – which is the government for those on Medicaid.

Well, if this doesn’t demonstrate the utter foulness of medicine in the USA……this organization advocates for a free market medical system, you betcha. Anything that restricts profits is BAD. 
 
Here’s to a national health system for all.

Just to remind you that the 47% was a Mitt Romney estimated. The real number was 50.6% that make 62,611,250 Americans voting for president Obama. If you check the unemployment data, you will find that as October, 2012 there are 12,258,000 Americans unemployed. They don’t ask for political affiliations, but assuming half of them are Republicans, and the fact that almost all “red states” have a government subsidized agriculture economy, is obvious that there are more Republicans living with government help than Democrats.And the 47% number is stupid; just 8% of the American are unemployed and a a similar number has agricultural subsidized employs. That’s it. You can not count people with disability, retired people with Medicare or Medicaid and people under the Federal Poverty Line because they will receive help any way by law under any government.

As Fields used to say, a fool is born every minute.  How many times has it been said you get nothing for nothing.  The cost of Nobamacare will harm the poor and middle class the most, the morons, or 47%’ers

Talk about cold blooded claptrap from an evil old woman, getting paid to spew lies on behalf of the Insurance industry.  Sorry, but regarding Obamacare, that ship left port.  It’s the law of the land and it’s going to evolve pretty quick into Single Payer, and all Americans will soon come to wonder why in the world anyone ever believed such lying nonsense.

@Vorenious This is not speculative.  We’ve seen how different models work in different nations.  We’re paying 17 percent of GDP for mediocre quality with 40 million uninsured, tens of millions of bankruptcies and enforced payoffs to middlemen.  Singapore has better outcomes, more modern,  covers everyone and it’s 4 percent of GDP.
 
No, nothing’s free.  But paying 17 percent vs. 4 is preferable, unless you’re unable to think properly, and the insurance industry is paying billions to assure you are unable to think at all,.

I see a lot of smug comments from some snide people.   It is touching to see such faith in the govt.  Especially from the Cuban guy.  Nice.  If we could only have cuba’s healthcare system.  Soon enough, I guess.  Then we can all have the opportunity to die of hypothermia in 50 degree weather while we’re in the hospital.   If the founders of this country had the same blind faith in govt ,  we would all be living in a different world.  Will you all have the same blind faith in govt when the other party is in power?   I did notice that not one of you smug, pro regime individuals addressed even one issue the women mentioned in the article.   No refutation of facts, just “its all gonna be wonderful…”    Good luck with your blind allegiance in govt as it destroys the middle class while you mindlessly cheer it on.

@jsw1108 I have a few posts here and I do reference facts.  And your blind allegiance to the GOP’s claptrap against “big government,” whatever that means, is simply because it’s the only means citizens have to protect themselves from the depredations of the financial predators who pay into the GOP’s coffers. 
 
Further, I was not being snide or smug.  Other countries have shown numerous means of delivering health care in a way that’s more cost effective, just as modern, with a better outcome for more people, at a fraction of the cost.
 
Health care is too important to plow more than half the cost into the pockets of people who do absolutely nothing to further the cause of health.  And a bunch of propaganda drunk people not withstanding, we’re finally making progress with this President.

I have never seen such extreme for or against a subject.   And the against:  they absolutely will not HEAR of anything negative about this Law.   They know nothing about, except all the promises Obama, Pelosi, Reid, etc. tell them how they are going to get free or cheap healthcare (not just insurance; but care, access, coverage – the best of all things) and this is going to be MANAGED by our fed. government.    Who, at this time, are trying to find a way to pay for PPACA, as they are being held to a budget!!!
 
Is there no common sense?  Have these people not even scanned the Law?  Do they only watch Letterman and MSNBC for news!   Half of Congress – Republicans, and some Dems; and the majority of citizens never wanted this  Law, which I’ve even heard, doesn’t go into effect until 2014!!!   By the way, it became Law 2010 and many parts already instituted.      PPACA is not coverage – it is a huge LAW that increases the size, control, and spending (according to CBO) regarding all healthcare costs, choices, issues by our Fed. gov’t – (compared to state laws – fed. doesn’t have those rights); and steps on many other freedoms.    It will cost and those really in need, as usual, because they need, will be paying the highest costs.

@bannxcam This isn’t about “promises.”  This is about having seen various means of delivering health care in advanced nations and knowing what does and does not work.
 
Now, I have no reason to think Pelosi or Reid have been lying about anything, however, there is more than enough evidence that the insurance industry, through their lobbyists and people like Scott Brown in Florida, have done nothing but lie about this issue.
 
The US has been paying 17 percent of GDP on health care and 40 million people are without.  Considering the money spent, there is no more important fiscal issue in the US and the Republicans will do nothing to fix it.  So, it’s up to the Democrats, who by the way have done nothing regarding health care that wasn’t first promoted by the Heritage Foundation and Richard Nixon.

@mwbright ”Evolving into single payer”?? maybe, maybe not – you don’t know that.
 
“Ship left port”.   When it sinks, you will abandon it, for a lifeboat – not a really good position to put yourself into.   I will forego “jumping onto the ship”, as I know it’s not good; and I will still try to educate people, possibly enough to at least defund it, then kill it.    Every issue already put into play, has had problems, CBO continues to change their opinion of trillion it will cost – not even close to deficit reduction, as promised; now with focus on budget – Obama and Sebelius are already trying to find a way to cut costs and therefore benefits of PPACA – and do these things EVER come in under budget and aren’t there always unintended consequences.     
 
We need to be smarter consumers.   There is so much real information out there – if you are in favor of something – at least check it out, and vice versa.

@JorgeDeFeria ????????  Maybe you forgot to take your meds?

@swampwiz   So, under PPACA – the government is going to be taking on all the additional costs and they are rich?  They have a surplus of money sitting there just waiting to be spent?  I could be wrong; but doesn’t that mean “taxpayers” are going to be paying more?  And, who pays for the percentage of the bills, that Medicaid, and now Medicare % payments were cut? 
 
And, don’t some of those 47% have income tax liability, especially those retired on Medicare?

@kbarker715 Maybe demonstrates, Econ 101, or supply and demand?  And, our government regulates every business!!!   Private business believes “profits” are necessary.   Gov’t receives, just an example; one billion and spends 10 billion – I think that’s BAD.

@mwbright  @jsw1108 Because he does not have faith in the government means that he has “blind allegiance to the GOP’s claptrap against ‘big government?!’”You seriously worry me.  THE CONSTITUTION itself has the sole purpose of protecting us from having “big government!”  Just because some morons on the right claim that they’re conservative doesn’t mean all conservatives are Faux News Rush Limbaugh blithering idiots.

@mwbright  @Vorenious What other nation has a system close to this?  Where the insurance and health care providers are still privately-owned yet the federal government MANDATES that everyone buy from them?!?!  Tell me.

@dmodmodmo  @jsw1108 There is nothing in the Constitution that refers to “Big” or “Little” or “Just the Right Size” government.
 
Invariably, from my observations, the people pushing this meme about “Big Government” (as if any government representing 320 million people is going to be anything but) is simply a means of disarming citizens of recourse against being ripped off by scoundrels.  Because that is what government is in a democracy; a tool by which the will of the citizens is expressed.
 
Meanwhile, I want to see that 17 percent of GDP paid for health care brought down to 4 percent, as in Singapore, which has better treatment and outcomes for 100 percent of it’s citizens.  Anything else represents a ripoff, whom the author of the above article is most assuredly allied with.

@dmodmodmo  @Vorenious Switzerland and Denmark.  There are others, I believe.  It would have been Single Payer, if we didn’t have to deal with Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats serving the private insurance industry, but it will become Single Payer as Americans learn more about the benefits.

@mwbright Have fun writing that check.
Yes, the ‘penalty’ tax check for not purchasing YOUR OWN health insurance!
Oh and .. That ‘penalty’ check .. WILL NOT provide YOU with any, nada, none, zilch, zip .. health care! LOL
 
Come back when brains and comprehension are doled out next go around! 8)
By now!

@mwbright “An evil old woman spewing lies”   Wow. Such insightful observations. Enlighten us with one, or even maybe two , full blown explanations / descriptions of the facts , re her “lies”.
“Spewing” doesn’t get it for most intelligent  humans.

Dr. Orient writes: “Most Americans will have a choice of one tax (a ‘penalty’) or else a much higher tax equivalent (a “premium”) for an ObamaCare compliant health plan.”
 
Wow.  This is how our failing health coverage system has been working for over a century and suddenly it’s a new tax thanks to Obama.  Tell you what, doctor, why don’t you just claim that everything is a tax and it’s all Obama’s fault.  Keep doing that and watch the crazy right wing in this country atrophy election cycle by election cycle.  The nation will thank you for your efforts.

We could easily afford all this if we’d just bring our troops home and quit wasting all our resources policing other countries. Also why not send food instead of tanks, America throws away 40% of it’s daily food supply, why does everyone knitpick about junk like this, just to keep us distracted from the truth? Bottom line is the 99% provide all the money and technology to the 1% working like slaves for a piece of the money they allow us, why not give the money back to them and we’ll just keep our stuff? World would be a better place IMO.

Dr. Orient is pushing the insurance industries’ latest claptrap designed to confuse and obfuscate.
 Yes, you have a new tax.  Oh, dear, who would have imagined people would have to actually pay for something.  However, it’s better than having to subsidize all the uninsured people who end up in emergency rooms and paying ten times over and above the services provided.
 Every person who has no insurance is going to get sick at some point and need medical care and we’re all going to pay for it, until everyone has insurance.
 It’s like having insurance when you get in a car.  It’s required.  It needs to be required for health care now, because everyone gets sick.

I am not on the side of limited government, I am on the side of Fuck Government!

gee hate the poor much? Im tired of all this doom casting toward people who dont make a million a year. The goverment has bailed out corporations for years and I dont hear how bad they are affecting the economy.

@Vorenious
 how? prove it how will it harm a family that has no insurance? hmm like mine. Diagnosed with cancer in june, stage 4 metastatic melanoma, had it for 4 years and I worked for a company that doesnt supply or offer healthcare, even tried to get the doctors to take payments but to no avail. Im dieing now because doctors would not see me without paying cash first, nice guys huh? didnt bother them when I was told to go home from the emergency room and its not going to bother them when Im gone either cuz they gets paid. Thats your bottom dollar and all the horror stories they are spewing is just a way for them to keep the money flowing to hell with human life.Thats our medical system now, pay or die. Will you feel that way if it was your child or spouse? Doesnt that seem criminal to you? or maybe you agree pay or die.Think on that for awhile.

@mwbright  @bannxcam 
My healthcare premiums have tripled since this law passed. I am now making a Mercedes payment every month to Aetna. I fail to see the correlation between Obamacare and a good deal. And by the way, I stopped reading your idiotic rant when I hit Scott Brown in Florida. He’s from Massachusetts. Fool.

@TommyCzxqa  @bannxcam Nothing in the law has gone into effect yet that could make your rates double — it’s the insurance companies who have been raising rates far outstripping inflation or anything else in the way of costs for decades now.
 
This is a deficit reducer, of major proportions.  If it had been Single Payer, it would have been far more cost effective.  It will be Single Payer though.
 
You really do owe it to yourself to look into these things and not just listen or read “news” from sources that have a particular point of view they want to push.  17 percent of GDP is ridiculous — it’s down to 4 percent of GDP in some countries and they get better outcomes with everyone covered. 
 
I’m sorry if there are people who are going to read this article and believe anything the doctor has to say, but fortunately, a majority of Americans this time around saw fit to reelect the President and forgo the Republicans dismantling Obamacare on behalf of their corporate masters.

@mwbright Um, you can choose to drive a car or take public transportation. Mandatory health insurance gives you no choice.

@Derick87387873 Well, maybe you should find a place to live where the government doesn’t worry about the health of it’s citizens.  Mexico provides insurance and so does Canada, so I guess you’re out of luck driving.  Maybe Nigeria or Bengladesh.  Because the American people are sick of living at the dictates of a bunch of propaganda drunk neanderthals who listen to the voices of people like Donald Trump and the Koch brothers and ask – how high, boss?
 
In other words, love it or leave it.  Because it’s the law — that’s how democracies work.  We voted for it and we got it and that’s the way it is.

@mwbright  @jsw1108 ”I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.”Both quotes, of course, are from Thomas Jefferson.  Just because the constitution doesn’t use the words “big” or “little” doesn’t mean that i’m wrong.  Read it, maybe?

@mwbright  @Vorenious One big difference I immediately see between the US plan and the Swiss health care system (from Wikipedia):  ”Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance.”

@DawnSpiering  @Vorenious So…. the fact that you didn’t previously buy insurance, or work yourself into a position and career where that would be provided for you, meant that you had absolutely no backup for a tragic, terrible, unpredictable emergency event (which should be the sole reason for having insurance).  Of course, that means that I should be forced to purchase insurance for myself.  Right?  Yeah, that makes sense.

@DawnSpiering
 I didn’t detect any hate at all.  If you had listened to other news outlets besides the main stream media, you would have heard plenty of complaints regarding Obama’s bailouts of his campaign contributors.

@swampwiz
…. and you honestly think the government will pay????  My physician, prior to the horrible passing of Ocare, told me right up front, “I will NOT be able to give you the medication you are taking now.  You will have to go back to the old medications because Ocare will NOT LET ME prescribe it for you!”  Out of the horse’s mouth!!!   Already, I have to see my internist for a gyn exam or a referral to go to one as the government will not let women now go to a gyn for their annual check up….I have the letter to prove it!
Wish those willing to live off the government would get their heads out of the sand!  If those on the government’s (taxpayer’s) dole would realize that the hard-working Americans who are paying taxes (I am referring to the high and middle classes) are having to foot the bill for everyone and…are losing medical benefits as a result, maybe, pray-tell, they might realize those people might just stop working…then you’d get real equality!!!!  NO one would get anything….hmmmmm, novel thought!
 
When the top 2% of the American citizens pay more than 40% of the country’s taxes, perhaps more than that, then HOW CAN IT BE SAID THE “RICH” ARE NOT PAYING THEIR “FAIR” SHARE?????Mathematically, that leaves 98% to pay the rest…..you figure the ratio and give a logical answer~~~

@Jemmy  @swampwiz Jemmy, if I were you, I would find another physician.  Yours is trying to scare you.  The physician at my clinic was just changed to some guy that tried to tell me that Obamacare would be bad.  I asked why – and he said, “trust me, it will be bad.”  Sure it might be bad for his income – but that means it will be good for us paying his income.  Ironically this clinic is one of the community clinics that gets some funding from the federal government – with all the patients being uninsured, and who would have the most to gain from Obamacare.

@Jemmy  @swampwiz Then get rid of your right wing hack of a doctor and find someone else.  Better for you because nobody needs a stupid person looking out for their health care.
 My sister, Harvard trained OB/GYN, says Single Payer is the way to go — and it’s INSURANCE understand?  People pay in and the exchange pays out, without the onus of only getting sick old people, while the private companies get all the young and healthy customers.
 Again – the American people are paying 17 percent of GDP on health care, twice as much as the rest of the civilized world and 40 million Americans aren’t getting covered at all.

@swampwiz  @Jemmy Hell, those doctors would probably do better.  They certainly do well in Canada, Britain and Singapore.  And there wouldn’t be all that waste paying people like Scott Brown in Florida literally billions!

Will it cost us as much as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in money and in lives…? ummm NO, I say let’s take time to care about the American people for a change!

Actually, it will cost more money and possibly more in lives.  In 2007, Medicare and Medicaid made up 24% of federal spending vs 17% for the DoD.  ObamaCare increases costs so, check, costs more per year than waging war.  As to lives, our death toll in both wars has been very low compared to just about any other significant cause of death.  Once ObamaCare kicks in and degrades both access and quality of care, there will likely be a diluted death toll throughout the country that exceeds that of Iraq and Afghanistan.

your right, it won’t cost as much as the wars. it will cost much much more.

There are 45 million American citizens that do not have health insurance.  Obamacare provides insurance to them but someone has to pay for it.  This article reminds us that the private sector WILL fund this cost.   It will come from our paychecks and reductions in our own heath CARE services.  The health insurance system and the health care system needs a serious re-structure – Obamacare does not do that.

I hope the government runs health care as well as they do the post office. No lines. Financially solvent. No need for bailouts. No competition doing it any better.

You will be paying for a service and getting in line with those who pay nothing………….illegals included.
 
Hope you are not bleeding!

Unfactual on so many levels that I can’t begin to address them all….this is the type of misinformation that is fueling all of the lies.

The costs on corporations for “obamacare”will be simple “Economics 101″,pass the extra costs on to the price of that which you manufacture or sell in your place of business,as Denny’s did in Florida.5% tax added to the dining bill.People are so stupid,they won’t see it!!

@nurse1986 This is a cop out. What are the facts that you know?

Where I live we have the choice of one healthcare provider. Needless to say the policies on offer are not competitive either on price or coverage. Virtually any change to the system will help me to get healthcare that I can afford and that will cover me and my family.
The US has the highest health spending in the world – equivalent to 17.9% of its gross domestic product (GDP), or $7,960 per person (source OECD 2009), yet millions of people are not covered due to cost or pre-existing conditions. Just about every other developed country provides universal healthcare. As a result the World Health Organisation rates the USA as 38th in terms of effectiveness of it’s healthcare behind Costa Rica and Chile and just ahead of Slovenia, Cuba and Brunei for goodness sakes!
Don’t expect Obamacare to be perfect – it won’t be. It’s the first step to create an effective healthcare system, something other developed countries take for granted.

Ultimately, Dr. Jane, the government take over of health care is not in your best interest, because after the “low hanging” fruit of single payer, big  pharma, and best practices are picked, the direction will turn to the fact that many Dr.’s are make way too much.

I stopped reading at the point this idiot said the 47% “don’t pay taxes”.
 
Just another mouthbreather brainwashed by KKKarl and his buddies.
 
Here’s a hint:  Payroll taxes, sales tax, gasoline tax, and all the rest are TAXES.

@SarahAQ ..the Post Office has been in deep water for many, many years! Why do you think they are contemplating no Saturday delivery and possibly fewer week days? Additionally, the inpact of the internet has diminished the amount of paper being used for letters, etc. How many e-mail cards have you gotten this year? We got about 1/5 of the Christmas cards we normally get……logistics!!

@Heywoodwest …sorry, you are wrong about Ocare….my physician told me I would no longer be able to receive the current tx I am getting and would have to get the old tx, more dangerous of the two because of this heinous interference into our private care!!

@Jemmy  @Heywoodwest During my last visit to the clinic, my physician told me the same kind of lie.  And that’s what it is – a lie from certain physicians (like the author.)

Great article! So true. We just received our health care insurance renewal rate info and the rate is going up 33%!!! Unbelievable!! Mr. President and those knuckelhead Dems promised O’bamacare would reduce the copt of heal;th care. What a bunch of bull!! But whats really frustrating is the way the media just went along with it and cheerleads for this administration. Wake up America! You have been fleeced!!

The nation is about to look like Detroit.. Just watch

1st time on this website.  Is most of what you publish mindless, p[artisan rants like this?  I’d rather spend my compressed time reading something intelligent, instead.  Well, g’bye…
L. M. Cobb, MD, FACS

@guest111222 Oh fine, pretend the “idiot” said ‘don’t pay income taxes.”  Then you can keep reading the article.

Case and point?  Yours was probably the most mindless comment of all…

LOL…seriously, Jemmy?  You didn’t catch on to Sarah’s sarcasm???

@This is called ‘spreading the wealth’ around. What we’re actually doing is spreading the ‘poor’ around.

@JasonSlanec
 Yeah, I was just a little sarcastic.  lol

@Heywoodwest
 There are a multitude of ways that the healthcare system can be reformed without a government take over, and at least half of them would cut healthcare costs signficantly.  NObama chose the one that would advance him most politically, not the one that was in the best interests of the entire US population.

We could afford it if we eliminated abuse and fraud in the welfare programs too.

@Heywoodwest Yep.  What we really need is competition in the medical marketplace and that just doesn’t exist.  In fact, your doctor can’t even tell you how much a treatment will cost before you consent.  I understand costs will vary for surgery once you get in there, but the same is true for the auto body shop and they are somehow able to give you a quote.  Anyway, the whole competition thing started getting blown up when due to WWII wage controls, employers started offering health insurance as an employment benefit.  That began the cost disconnect between patient and provider.  Nothing will really get better until the disconnect is fixed.

@guest111222 Why do you assume that people on government programs, should possess a auto anyhow + we are paying for their gas, when it is painful for me to fill my own tank with money & spent time “working” for & if they are paying payroll taxes, why do they get a government check.   Also where do I sign up for this one, anyone of them

@mwbright The Insurance Co’s. are raising rates because of obama care>  So you just keep believing that what you wrote is true, you are in for a shock when it adds to the deficit among all of the other things you got wrong

mwbright-just love how you keep promoting the cost of h/c in Singapore.  Such a good example to follow.  Americans have always valued their freedoms and interference from Gov’t.   Singapore is such a free society to live in and admire.  For example, the Rattan Cane is a legally sanctioned form of punishment and is often employed for over 30 types of offence, such as robbery, breaking and entering, assault, rape, living off the earnings of prostitution, vandalism etc.
Like many countries in the region, penalties for drug use, possession or trafficking are very severe indeed. Singapore does have the death sentence and it is used for narcotics offences.
Driving while drunk could get you 10 years in prison!  Homosexual acts may lead to imprisonment. Kissing between men, for example, is illegal.  There are very strict laws in place that keep Singapore the squeaky clean place it is. The following are prohibited… Smoking in public, chewing gum, spitting in public, littering, jaywalking. Failure to observe these laws will result in stiff fines.  The fine for forgetting to flush the toilet in a public convenience is S$500.
If you have a balcony or garden, be aware that if you have flower pots, or anywhere that collects water and mosquito larvae subsequently breed, you risk being fined as a result.
I would guess that you have never worked in either the H/Care field or insurance for that matter.  I have worked in both industries and I can tell you from experience that ALL of your thoughts are flawed.  The ACA will do nothing to improve H/Care or lower the cost of coverage.  Why are the insurance companies raising the rates now you ask…..to prepare for all the freebies and mandates that start 1-1-14.  OH, you thought they would wait until the 2014 to prepare for the additional expense……Tells me you’ve never run a business either.  A single payor system like you endorse and so champion from other countries has to limit care.  Again a difficult business concept for you to understand since you have never run a business or met a payroll.  Like so many libs, you are clueless and have no idea what you are promoting.  I just wish I could be there the day the “Single” payor tells you that the cancer treatment you or a family member needs is not available.  Sorry, we’ve already maxed out on those services this year and no funds available.  Happy Trails Db/As.

@guest111222
 Read it again, she saId 47% don’t pay Federal Income Tax!  OF course they pay other taxes.  Name calling, the first line of defense for libs.

@mwbright  @bannxcam
 Perhaps if the government stopped funding all of the free clinics they could afford to pay for free medical care for the poor.  No wait a minute, the free clinics already give free medical care to the poor.

The idea that thyere are millions of uninsured Americans may be accurate. But the statement that they are without healthcare is an out and out lie. Every single ER that I have been into has a sign posted somewhere (and frequently inside the front door of the hospital as well) that basically states that no one will be denied medical treatment due to an inability to pay. This is a FEDERAL LAW, and has been for decades. The costs are supposed to be forwarded and billed to the Feds. However, the feds got far behind the eight ball, and once Obama came in, ceased to reimburse the states altogether, thus leaving the hospitals on the hook for almost a TRILLION dollars of debt on their own. They had no money, but still couldn’t turn any one away. That is why one of the first phrases in English an illegal learns is “I want to see a doctor.” The moment that phrase is uttered in an ER, it’s over. They MUST be treated. ERs in Southern California have closed at an alarming rate because they can no longer support the expense. At a hospital in LA where my wife worked for 16 years, her department in a sub-field of cardiology turned a large profit. It was what kept the hospital open because the ER bleed would have otherwise killed the whole facility!
Ooops. The real world calls. Later….

@kentucky thunder
So if someone is mostly asymptomatic and is only showing the possibility of one of the 7 warning signs of cancer, he can get that “treated” at an emergency room?

@JeanOcelot @kentucky thunder Holy freaking crap!!! You want good health care? Go study hard, go get a job, and go work hard! You want free crap? Do nothing, the rest of us will pay for it, and you can say thank you! You don’t get to be whiny about how your free health care isn’t good enough!

@JeanOcelot @kentucky thunder Oh and hoping someone else gets cancer? Definitely makes you sound like a liberal.

@JeanOcelot  @kentucky thunder Come on man, that’s really low to wish someone would lose their medical care and then be diagnosed with Cancer.  Let’s try some civil debating.  Have you ever heard of thing called Karma.  We all have different views – and we should be able to say our views without hateful rhetoric.

@Infoman Yes and we were supposed to be able to keep our doctor, and it was not a tax.  Whoever picked the name ‘Affordable Care Act” deserves an award for satire.  I predict this utterly stupid plan is going to self implode.

@Ozzie14  @guest111222 I’m beginning to believe that.  Having to start off a conversation with a rude or vulger name is so not called for.

We are talking federal income tax which a big part of the 47% get 100% back plus some due to earned income credit etc  Payroll or income tax has tunred into another forma of welfare   its sukcs…when you fiel your income tax every year when you get to 0 owed your done not federal governemnt pays you moer than what you put in   Learn about taxes and how it wokrs before you write anything

@Heywoodwest No I completely disagree with your comment that at least we’re getting closer to real healthcare.  Obamacare has nothing to with health or affordability.  The guy who named it the “Affordable Care Act” deserves an award for satire.  The only way we’re going to get real healthcare in this country is to let the free market do it’s job.  Hospitals need to post the prices as well as doctors.  People should be able to shop around. 
I’ll give you a good personal and up close glimpse into our new health care system.  My mother who is 82 yrs old, and who lives in small town America is now on the hunt for a new doctor who will take Medicare.  Her old doctor decided that he didn’t make enough money off of Medicare so he pretty much quit.  On her quest for a new doctor she was sent for blood work and other routine tests.  Medicare refused to pay the bills (which by the way were over $200 a piece).  Because my mom is also eligible for Tricare and because Medicare disapproved the test as being “not medically necessary” they refused to pay as did Tricare.  So guess how the deficit is going to be made up?  Out of my mother’s pocket.  Still no doctor and $400 poorer.
That thing with Sara Palin and the ‘death panels’ well they are real.  Here’s what I heard about a doctor, a neurosurgeon, had to say after returning from a conference in DC.  Patients are not referred to as patients, they are referred to as “units”.  That little word right there makes me crazy.  Anyway, if you’re older than 70 and you have an aneurysm or other type of brain bleed you will be given ‘comfort care’.  Nothing more, nothing less.  No surgery for you because you’re too old and you’re life expectancy is not enough to warrant an expensive surgery.  So basically unless you want to pay out of pocket for the life saving procedure, you’re going to die.
I don’t know about you but I am not an automaton where I can be repaired by taking parts of the shelf, nor do I believe that after 70 you should be fed to the wolves.  I predict by the time they try to get this “TAX” worked out Obamacare will have self imploded.  Just wait until the full force of the law kicks in and then write and tell me how wonderful the care is.  We ain’t seen nothing yet.

And another 47% don’t care because they are not paying for it.

Another illiterate and innumerate physician for ignorance as the basis for public policy.
 
Virtually every physician practicing in the United States has disproportionately benefited from government subsidies to medical education, hospital construction and medical and pharmaceutical research.
 
They all benefit from a legal system that delays settlement of even the most egregious malpractice cases for so long that many of the victims die before their cases are settled and they, or their families, are justly compensated.
 
When physicians are willing to pay their own way we might be concerned.

@bikerdogred1 Actually, one of the points of the article is that the 47% who don’t pay income taxes do help pay for it, both directly–through medicare taxes on low income wage earners (who do still qualify for certain entitlements), and indirectly–through lost jobs due to layoffs, and the increased cost of virtually everything due to regulatory taxes. To quote the above article, “So even the current beneficiaries of entitlement programs, a big chunk of the 47%, will be harmed by ObamaCare.”

@bikerdogred1 Oh absolutely, everyone is harmed by it.  Except those businesses that will grow to exploit the new regulatory requirements.

@JeanOcelot Of course the irrational and innumerate commentators here  want to fantasize about high quality care being available to aliens – but you are right on target.
 
The only care that ERs have to provide is stabilization and transfer. Most ERs do this inefficiently at best and usually the care in ERs is sub-standard.
 
But the bigger point, which they also ignore, is that the health care system has been morphing for decades and while Obamacare is not a panacea for our failing health care (finance) systems, no Obamacare wasn’t a panacea either. Obamacare was a response to an already severely dysfunctional system – not the cause of the dysfunction.
.
What we need is an efficient health insurance system and managed care, capitation, the Medicare/Medicaid Prospective Payment Systems and the Diagnosis Related Groups systems are the antithesis of an efficient health insurance system.
 
The hands down most efficient health insurance program would be a single payer national health insurer. It would provide more care than any other health care finance mechanism though admittedly it would lead to none of the outrageous profits or huge executive compensation plans provided by our current system of hundreds of insurers, managed care organizations, HMOs and insurance risk assuming health care providers.

@ChadPen About to look like Detroit? Where were you when Bush left office in January, 2009 and the entire country was just like Detroit?

@Infoman and you thought that your health care costs were going down after the devaluation of the dollar due to 8 years of W borrowing tens of trillions ?
 
Be real! Republicans led us into this morass and it will be decades before we recover from GWB and innumerate tea party republicans

@dumbledore04  @JeanOcelot Part of your analysis is correct.  We do need an efficient health care system.  However, the problem is that we are going in exactly the wrong direction.  Open market competition, free of excessive regulatory burden, is how you improve the efficiency of the health care system.  We already had too much government involvement and Obamacare adds many, many, many MORE regulations.  Not less.  And we are already seeing the decline of care.  In the last two months I have observed several smalls things that used to be covered by BS/BC and Tricare are no longer covered and the expense must now be born by the patient.  And that’s WITH rising premiums and co-pays.

Sarah – The amount of waste, fraud and abuse in defense spending dwarfs the amount of waste, fraud and abuse in welfare programs – unless of course you consider the spending on salaries for managerial staff in the defense industry as welfare programs.
 
We are not going down the tubes because a family of 4 gets a few dollars in food stamps every month – we are going down the tubes because execs at some of our major corporations are mismanaging their companies to maximize their bonuses and pay even if they destroy the companies in the process.
 
The elevation of greed to an honored status, not charitable compassion for the less fortunate is the reason we have most of the problems we have.
 
When we start to see our modern industrialists as the greedy, self-serving elitists they are, recognizing them as Mr. Potter from Its a Wonderful Life, rather than honoring them for their malfeasance, we will begin to restore some semblance of morality and sanity to our policy debates.
 
The core problem is not between various castes in the middle class – it is the economic warfare being waged on the overwhelming majority of Americans by a tiny minority of Americans and non-Americans that lies at the root of our economic woes.

@dumbledore04  Bush borrowed tens of trillions?  You are quite confused.  The government added $3.5 trillion to the national debt in 8 years under GWB.  After 4 years of BHO, the debt has risen $7 trillion.  In other words, GWB added to the debt at about $438 billion per year.  BHO has been adding debt at $1.75 trillion per year or 4 times as fast.  
 
But, it’s not actually the president that matters so much.  If you really want to see what’s happening, things go bad when there is a democrat controlled congress, get better when there is a republican controlled congress and stay about the same when it is mixed. ObamaCare was the product of a democrat controlled congress (with such gems as “We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it”) and we are beginning to reap the fruit of this ill wind.

@BTeboe  @Heywoodwest 
 
Physician net revenues are declining in Medicare/Medicaid and EVERY third party insurer and managed care program across the board.
 
Obamacare doesn’t impact physician revenues anywhere near as much as managed care, capitation, bundled payment systems and episode based care payment mechanisms.
 
Physicians are leaving medical practice because after 8 years of George W Bush their revenues sank while their costs rose dramatically.
 
They are also leaving because most of them aren’t doing their jobs – Their patients get sick and remain sick because they fail to take proper care of them. For a couple of decades physicians ran printing presses – making money the old fashioned way – charging for unnecessary services and charging for services they never provided.
 
Now, faced with having to stop the printing presses and actually work and perform a lot of physicians are assuming they can make more money somewhere else – the problem is that most of them are unfit for productive work of any sort. and will eventually realize this.
 
There are just so many slots available for limiting access to care – eventually someone actually has to provide care.

@Derick87387873  @mwbright 
 
Derick – you can only choose public transportation if public transportation is available. But of course public transportation is usually subsidized so I am not at all sure why you would use it in an argument against the PPACA.
 
In the last 40 years the worst, most obviously flawed experiment was perpetrated on the pub;ic – that managed care would reduce spending on health care while increasing access to care for all.
 
Nixon loved the idea because it had already been demonstrated at Kaiser-Permanente that  you could get away with providing less and less care if you simply forced doctors into roles as their patient’s  health insurers. The more you squeeze the physicians – telling them that they are spending too much caring for their patients, the more callous and indifferent they become toward their patients.
 
But the point of the health care system is to provide care and the point of the health care finance system is to finance care. You can tolerate modest profits in both these systems without sacrificing care but not the kinds of profits that add up to billions of dollars in health care executive compensation as happened over the last 40 years.
 
If you have executives and owners of health care systems who are converting premiums to personal wealth at the rate it has been happening since Nixon’s support for HMOs in 1973 – that wealth is coming from patient care – not efficiency. If there was that much money left over at the end of the year it should have resulted in lower premiums, making health insurance more affordable for millions of policyholders.
 
Truth is there is absolutely no reason we should tolerate the diversion of funds from patient care at the level it has been occurring. This isn’t private sector efficiency – it is fraud.

@InsAgent Sounds like your idea of freedom is to be able to do illegial things…hm….

@dumbledore04
 I have no doubt there is enough waste in defense spending to support several small countries.  It is run by the gov’t, after all.
 
The point in my response to Mr. Breastmode is that he wanted to demonize the “99% who provide all money and technology to the 1%”, however, nearly 99% of those receiving welfare are doing so through fraud and abuse (i.e. greed).  Behaviorally, there is little difference between the two groups.  Selfishness and greed are in our DNA, regardless of ‘class’.
 
As for elevating greed to an honored status — and I’ll use the Waltons as an example — don’t shop at Wal-Mart any more and they won’t have an income over which to be greedy, self-serving and elitist. Of course, if everyone stopped shopping at Wal-Mart, tens of thousands of workers would be out of a job and/or benefits and they’d have to pay higher prices for the things they used to buy there.
 
Kind of a catch 22, huh? On one side greedy, self-serving elities, on the other, jobs and affordable goods. Taking from one side to give to the other won’t balance the scales, though. If you try to take too much from the greedy side they just remove themselves from the equation and leave the other side to fend for themselves.  Without the greedy around it’s hard to cry victim.

@ChrisMarks1  @dumbledore04 Chris – Do not confuse current payments for incurred costs. Bush’s “off-budget” costs for two wars run to the tens of trillions – just because they weren’t paid during his presidency doesn’t mean he did not incur the costs.
 
Blaming Obama for paying Bush’s credit card bills is the height of economic illiteracy.

“A single payor system like you endorse and so champion from other countries has to limit care.”
 
You aren’t seriously asserting that a private insurer can offer its policyholders unlimited care are you?
 
When your private insurer exhausts the loss cost component of its premiums and its surplus, it declares bankruptcy, and long before that happens it is limiting claims payments as best it can.
 
Resource scarcity affects both public and private insurers – not just public insurers.

@ChrisMarks1  
 
Your doctor can’t tell you how much your treatment will cost before you consent?
 
What weird universe do you live in? Your doctor can tell you how much it will cost – what they may not be able to tell you is how much your insurer will pay or what your co-payment will be.
 
You need to stop confusing what doctors do to evade responsibility for their actions with law. There are no laws that say doctors cannot tell patients how much something will cost or what the doctor’s costs are.
 
You are doing the typical republican thing of excusing poor behavior as though regulations forbid honesty – the same sort of rationalization BP tried to use when they tried to blame the federal government for the oil spill because the federal inspectors didn’t shut down their drilling. BP took the cheap path – not the federal government.
 
Doctors refuse to tell patients how much their treatments costs because they don’t want their patients to know the profits they are making.

@SaraAQ ”nearly 99% of those receiving welfare are doing so through fraud and abuse (i.e. greed). ”
 
Do you have any proof whatsoever that 99% of those receiving  welfare are doing so through fraud and abuse?
 
Even ronald reagan didn’t make that sort of wildly inaccurate assertion and he was consistently proved to be wrong after wasting hundreds of millions of dollars searching for welfare fraud and abuse.
 
At the same time he de-regulated the savings and loan industry and the cost to taxpayers was in the hundreds of billions of dollars.
 
Way to go to make our country more efficient.

“The premium has to cover all the ObamaCare mandates that the worker may not need or want, or to which he objects.”
That’s more or less the definition of insurance.  It’s not specific to the ACA.   For example, I am highly unlikely to need treatment for breast cancer for I am a man.  Never the less, my insurance premium (pre ACA)  pays for other people to have that care.  I may “object” to all kinds of care that people receive, yet, my premium pays for it.
Incidentally, trying to rename it the “unaffordable act” denotes the emotional maturity of a fifth grader.  The American health care system (insurance and all) is already a mess about which everybody has been complaining.  The ACA was designed to address many of those complaints.

ChrisMarks1 You’ve largely missed the point of what it means to embrace capitalism as the operating economic system for our nation.  Perhaps I can make it more clear for you.  If everybody studied hard, went and got the best job they could, and worked hard, we would still have millions of working poor in this country.
The lack of good well paying jobs is not due to a lack of qualified workers.  Capitalism ensures that many people will be working at minimum wage.  When working at minimum wage for 40+ hours a week (as millions do) doesn’t lift a family above the poverty line, and the govt. provides help, it doesn’t mean that people wand free stuff.  It means that the inequality of our nation is starting to cost all of us some extra cash.  In my mind, it is just more evidence that we are all in this together and we can help each other in sane measured ways (like the ACA) or we can continue to do it in dumb and expensive ways (like providing emergency room care at the public’s expense).  But, there is no way to avoid paying for the care of others.  Welcome to civilization.

kentucky thunder So what you are saying is that the ACA is greatly needed and welcomed.  Because, if I’m reading you correctly, providing catch all care from the emergency room to those lowest on the income ladder is the most expensive (and probably the stupidest) way to manage care.