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Obamacare’s new message to employers: Drop health insurance for workers

11:36 pm by | 209 Comments

Doug Holtz-EakinThe bombshell that just dropped is not 4th of July fireworks – it was the White House announcing that it was delaying enforcement of the employer-mandate in ObamaCare until 2015. For a public inured to craven political decisions trumping policy, even this was a stunner.

Can the president simply ignore the law? Technically the mandate is not gone, but the administration has great latitude to determine its priorities in enforcing the law. It will simply be much too busy to penalize those violating the mandate, an executive power grab that is familiar from their playbook on education, climate change, and elsewhere.

The policy implications are fairly straightforward. Essentially for calendar 2014 the act of dropping coverage and dumping employees into the exchanges is on sale. Drop and dump, but no penalty. Accelerating the rush of employers to the exits is bad news for taxpayers. At a minimum, the federal revenue from fines is gone. More realistically, the costs of already-bloated insurance subsidies will escalate and the red ink will rise.

Viewed from a health insurance perspective, the implications are mixed. For some, it may well be the case that the new, exchange-based insurance is a better combination of coverage and cost. But it will come at the cost of even greater churning in insurance coverage – which translates into switching provider networks and interrupting health care. (The laughing you hear in the background is those remembering the president’s promise that “if you like your insurance, you can keep it.”)

Harm to health care, interrupted health insurance, bigger federal deficits, and brazen disregard for the law of the land sounds like a bad idea. Why do it?

Politics. Democrats no longer face the immediate specter of running against the fallout from a heavy regulatory imposition on employers across the land. Explaining away the mandate was going to be a big political lift; having the White House airbrush it from the landscape is way better.

It helps with ObamaCare in other ways as well. The administration was flailing to find high-profile allies (e.g., the National Football League) to advertise the wonders of ObamaCare. In a single masterstroke it has given every company a reason to explain its existence (“don’t worry, you’ll be fine in the exchanges”) and created a de facto advertising campaign of enormous scale and reach. Deviously brilliant.

Finally, those on the paranoid right and central-planning left will see this as a willful acceleration of the transition to exchanges full of Americans that are ripe to be transformed into a single-payer system. It will be read as another blow struck in the meta-fight over the size and scope of the federal government.

The announcement is a surprise but bad policy, dreadful governance, and slippery politics are not.

Copyright 2014 MedCity News. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

By Douglas Holtz-Eakin

Douglas Holtz-Eakin is the President of the American Action Forum and most recently was a Commissioner on the Congressionally-chartered Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission. During 2001-2002, he was the Chief Economist of the President’s Council of Economic Advisers. From 2003-2005 he was the 6th Director of the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office. During 2007 and 2008 he was Director of Domestic and Economic Policy for the John McCain presidential campaign. Following the 2008 election Dr. Holtz-Eakin was the President of DHE Consulting.
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208 comments
jmstalk
jmstalk

I think good companies will always offer health care benefits in some form. Health care benefits is benefit offered to entice top notch employees to the company. The incentive to do this will still exist when the economy turns around and production picks up. This will have to happens at some point when the baby-boom generation leaves the work force.

bigdaveroni
bigdaveroni

the states with the highest concentration of democrats are the state with highest crime counties, the highest abortion rates the highest drug use, the highest drop out rates the highest unemployment rates why should the rest of the world listen to the uneducated  of the country ...is beyond me... cant wait for the mid-term elections.... can you say impeach obama just like Clinton was impeached.......another democrat liberal...that .lied to the American people and was impeached......and obummer is just around the corner.....cant wait....I am laughing quietly and watching the dems making fools of themselves everyday.....what obummers approval rating....?lol

even michelle wants a divorce

did you see that Obama taking a selfie at a Mandela's funeral  are you  serious......insane person there which only other insane people can relate too....2014 the year of real changes...obamas rating is what...?

lol

flap your way outta that....

republicans are made out to be racist by the democrats when actually all republicans are hard working family value seeking people

 we don't want to separate people but join them by making Americans take accountability for their own actions

, and a illegal isn't even kind of an American

 and should have no rights

 just because they didn't get caught breaking into our country and breaking our laws and sneaking into our country, answer me this demo's which other country in the world pays anyone who sneaks into their country illegal, food, housing , education, medical, name one.......there isn't any...period. if your illegal your ILLEGAL google the word.....then explain that.


michaels39301
michaels39301

As of January 1st of 2014, these are some of the advantages of ObamaCare (as the ACA is referred to by its detractors):

1.Over 120 million Americans with pre-existing conditions no longer have to worry about being denied health coverage or charged higher premiums because of their health status.

2.Many previously uninsured Americans have new health insurance options, either through private health plans in the Marketplace or through Medicaid in those states where the governor has allowed its expansion.Nearly 6 in 10 American who were previously uninsured could be paying as little as $100/month or less.

3.Millions of Americans no longer have to worry about having their health benefits cut off after they reach some pre-supposed dollar limit on benefits.

4.All health plans are now REQUIRED top cover at least 10 categories of essential health benefits.As a result of these new protections, approximately 60 million will gain expanded mental health and substance use protections.

5.71 million Americans have already gained at least one preventive service in 2011-2012, along with an additional 25 million in the first 11 months of 2013, with zero out-of-pocket cost.

6.Over 3 million young adults have gained health insurance because they can now stay on their parents’ plan until age 26.

7.17 million children with pre-existing conditions are no longer a threat to their parents’ financial stability.

8.Since the 2010 rollout of the healthcare law, more than 7 million seniors and persons with disabilities have saved an average of $1200/person on prescription medications, due to closing the “doughnut hole”.

9.Insurance companies must now submit premium increases of 10% or more for review by a board of experts.Just last year, Americans saved an estimated $1.2 billion after insurers cut back on planned increases.

Consumers have saved $5 billion over the past 2 years, due to a new requirement that insurance companies have to spend at least 80% of premium dollars on patient care.If not, they must send rebates.

Dale54
Dale54

@michaels39301 I would love to know where you got your statistics. Please tell me why my insurance premiums increased 50% , my deductible 300% and my coinsurance 10%. All I know is I am paying more for less.

GeorgeWhetstine
GeorgeWhetstine

@michaels39301 Yes ,all those things are wonderful;kind caring,considerate,compassionate,and humane. And any company that was not protected and subsidized in one way or another by governments would be bankrupt and out of business.So if that's the ultimate goal and you think that laudable, you're on the right track.  

cathyclark787
cathyclark787

@michaels39301 Now I've no insurance, I'll be damned collecting Medicaid when we were fine paying 375 a month....can't afford the 590.  Outrageous....guess I'll plead my case in court and take on the IRS.  System needs complete over haul. I need to put food on the table without collecting food stamps or Medicaid.

cathyclark787
cathyclark787

@michaels39301 We went from 375 a month to an unaffordable 590.  Now we are eligible for Medicaid....what a joke, I'll pass and won't carry it.  I'll be one of many wasting money on fees but proud not to carry Medicaid.  Some one with KNOWLEDGE needs to rewrite the rules

wbcoc
wbcoc

@michaels39301

You fail to acknowledge the fact that insurance will not keep people from going bankrupt by any stretch of the imagination. There is nothing in O'care to hold down healthcare costs, in fact it will go up because of it. Forcing a family to pay twice as much in premiums and four times as much in deductibles will not help them pay their percentage of healthcare. Even 20% of an easy 150K hospital bill will bankrupt most families. O'care will hurt this country, no matter how much you want to defend your choice in Presidents.

tjfod1
tjfod1

@michaels39301....The issue is the source of your data and the self-evident law breaking  at every level of this administration. For instance:


Is your data from the HHS? hmmm...Is it from the IRS?....hmmm(2)...Is it from the DOJ....NSA or even the president himself?     As a good apparachik Mike, one thing is very clear, your data is not only bogus, but it is backed up by a thoroughly corrupt, law breaking administration intent on creating a constitutional crisis.

His actions domestically mirror what he's done the US Military and our State Department, ..For example the president of the US and Sec of State Clinton are being sued by the Egyptian government for funding what the Egyptians call Islamic terrorists and dumping them onto Egypt. This is just an example, however you are too confused by feelings and bad parenting.

Peace on earth, if not just win



disenwit
disenwit

@michaels39301So, Michaels, 60% of the 120 million with pre-existing conditions that were not insured because of that, or 72 million folks will pay only $100 a month or less for the Obamacare insurance!!!   Wow, I think that all the rest of us should cancel our insurance and pile onto Obamacare it is so cheap... and of course, we can wait till we have a pre-existing condition too, since there's no sense paying for something till you need it.  Then the coverage will only cost a $100 for the month or two if you get cured, and then you can quit paying again until you need it.   This is a wonderful plan!!!

disenwit
disenwit

@michaels39301Since your are the liberals expert on health insurance,  please explain why 38.33% of Americans have pre-existing conditions that prevent them from purchasing health insurance.  Just what is the disease that almost 40% of the population suffers from?  Are these also the same 47% of freeloaders that Romney talked about ?  And how come, Obama didn't say there were that many?  Was he lying again, or are you lying?

BarbaraAnne2
BarbaraAnne2

@michaels39301 Where are all these millions clamoring to sign up?  At last tally, fewer people signed up, or even got price quotes, than the people who were canceled from their existing policies due to regulations in Obamacare.  Financially, Obamacare is a flop.

Brucew56
Brucew56

In lala land, there is no downside, right. Oh, except for the 100 million people that have already lost, or will lose the policies they wanted and could afford, when the business mandate becomes effective this year.

This is NOT ABOUT HEALTHCARE! It's about the LIES and a corrupt president. Obama-Doesn't -Care is the cornerstone to the total destruction of American freedom. When people don't pay their premiums, good old government will just raise taxes to pay the insurance companies, and eventually we'll be on single payer. When enough people rely on government to take care of them, American democracy will be finished. The country is quickly moving in that direction.

Doctors and hospitals are not being included, care will be hard to get, and the US healthcare system will be destroyed.

michaels39301
michaels39301

@Dale54 @michaels39301 And one more thing:  You say you are paying more FOR LESS.  This cannot be, since ObamaCare covers everything.  If you had an older policy that contained MORE than ObamaCare, you would NOT have had to change policies.  If your poilicy did contain more coverage, it would have been grandfathered in.

michaels39301
michaels39301

@Dale54 @michaels39301  IF, and I repeat IF your premiums, deductible, and co-pays all increased, it was because your "old" policy didn't cover as much as ObamaCare.  If you weren't allowed to keep your old policy, it was simply because it didn't meet the minimums of the ACA.  These new policies cover everything, because covering everything means that more premiums are being paid in total, for every possible covered issue.  This makes the overall coverage cheaper because so many are paying for exactly the same thing, while the vast majority is not using the insurance for anywhere near all these things.  Everyone pays so that the contributions are enough to cover the small percentage that require an extreme amount of care.  In the end, it is all VERY fair, because at least 80% of the total premium amounts received must be used for patient care, or the balance must be returned to the policy owners. 


I have Medicare, where everyone the same age pays the same premium.  I haven't filed a Medicare claim in over a year, yet I pay the same premium that a neighbor my age pays who has been hospitalized for 5 of the last 6 weeks.  That is the basic principle of insurance.

Brucew56
Brucew56

@cathyclark787 @michaels39301 Applaud your independence. A true patriot. You and many others will "turn the ship in the right direction" in 2014. The elite ruling class has to be re-taught who really runs the country-its citizens!

The Liar in Chief should be impeached as a traitor to the oath of office. This is a watershed in American history. We either reclaim our country, or America is done as a capitalist democracy. God Bless America!

michaels39301
michaels39301

@cathyclark787 @michaels39301 Cathy, I am very sorry to hear your circumstances.  I agree that if your costs went from $375 to $590 for the Medicaid coverage, someone owes you a real explanation as to how they think you can now afford a 57% premium increase.  Best wishes.

michaels39301
michaels39301

@wbcoc @michaels39301 How many people actually have a $150K hospital bill?  You know full well that most do NOT.  At any rate, with ObamaCare, you can choose which level of deductible you want, along with what percentage of the total bill the insurer will have to pay. The one other thing that you have to realize is that a large hospital bill is definitely a possibility, so the best way to prepare for this is to actually learn how to save money.  This can be done each and every payday by paying  YOURSELF first.  Regardless of the amount you choose, whatever might be comfortable for your specific case, take it from the top of each and every paycheck and deposit in a separate "medical" savings account, not to be touched for any other purpose.  You will be surprised how fast this grows.


ObamaCare was super-beneficial to me, so I say there is no way it will hurt this country.  The Lord has already blessed us by NOT allowing Romney to win and have millions of Americans without healthcare.

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit @michaels39301 First of all, someone needs to explain to you what a pre-existing condition really is.  It is NOT something that maybe 1-2 months of hospitalization or treatment can cure.  In my case, it is something I have permanently.  There is no cure for it.  Or take someone with cancer, any type but let's use brain cancer as an example.  Do you think that 1-2 months of chemo and radiation automatically CURES the cancer?  Even if all the testing show dormancy, there is still no guarantee it is permanent.  If you had brain cancer, received however much or long of treatment the doctors said was necessary, and were ultimately pronounced cancer-free, would you risk dropping your insurance coverage and just hope it never returned?  Good luck with that.

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit @michaels39301  I sure didn't say that that many Americans have a pre-existing condition, BUT those that do, have been prevented from buying from any U.S. insurer, at least as far back as the 1980s, that I can attest. As for the conditionS they have, there are many, many that I am unaware of, but I do know that having a pacemaker is one of them.  I also believe that diabetes, cancer and numerous other diseases used to qualify as PRE-existing, no matter how long ago they were, or how long   they have been existing, if they still are.


Romney isn't intelligent enough to do the research that would show him that there is zero relationship between the 47% he was talking about, and the subject of pre-existing conditions.  Again, I sure have no idea how many actually have some pre-existig condition, but I certainly is some rather large number, just not a full third of Americans.  I might believe 20%.


Brucew56
Brucew56

And wait till 2015 when it really hits the fan.

michaels39301
michaels39301

@Brucew56 Those 100 million, or whatever the REAL number (probably MUCH lower than 100 million) of policies that have been cancelled because they do NOT MEET the ACA minimums are, are simply those policies that Americans have been tricked into purchasing by insurance companies and actually cover very little, if anything.  Sure they are cheaper than the ObamaCare policies, but the ObamaCare policies cover EVERYTHING.  Let's see, if an uninsured American family is looking for coverage and has two choices:  1.  A cheap policy that covers injuries from accidents while dog-sledding in the Yukon.  2.  A more expensive policy that covers everything imaginable on this Earth.  That American family should have the sense and responsibility to choose the second option.  


And incidentally, I live in a city that has 3 hospitals .  Every one of them has physicians that do and physicians that do NOT accept this new insurance.  The hospitals all accept it, so that is 100% hospital participation in the third largest city in a highly Republican state, a state with a governor that refuses to accept the Medicaid expansion and the billions of free dollars associated with it.  Thus, many doctors and all the hospitals here are alive, well, and thriving amid the few ACA detractors in the medical field.  Yet many individual poorer citizens here are still uninsured, and they COULD have been with Medicaid expansion. 

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit @michaels39301 @cathyclark787 My costs haven't gone up 1 penny since I joined MediCare over a year and 5 months ago, so if YOUR costs are going up, you ask YOUR leader Romney or Ryan what they are going to do about it.  I can already tell you the answer----> NOTHING, nothing at all.  They offered zero in terms of any type of legitimate plan for Americans, other than Ryan's pitiful effort to do away with MediCare as we know it and make it a voucher system.  Ask Ryan to vouch for you, as I am sure he will since both of you are of the same mental capacity.

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit AND their will would undoubtedly be that every medicare patient would only get one or two vouchers to hold down spending.

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit @michaels39301 


And by the way, I am going to my cardiologist tomorrow and I THANK THE LORD that I don't have to use one of Romney/Ryan's vouchers to pay for it.

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit @michaels39301


It is so funny that you say I am the joke, yet your inane words make me laugh out of control.  I wonder what Romney/Ryan's website WOULD have cost.  Oh, that's right nothing, because they had nothing to offer.  Republicans don't give 2 cents worth of care for Americans, especially those with less that 7 figure bank accounts.  


Sounds like your local doctor is a Republican, he can't get by without his peons helping him, but probably won't pay them a living wage.  So what if his costs go up 66% for his help?  66% of nothing is nothing.  I hope he gets what he deserves.  He pays nothing, so that's what he should get.  Just read your words.  Your doctor has 2 nurses and 1 bookkeeper, so to hire 2 bookkeepers, the costs increase 66%.  That assumes that the nurses and bookkeepers are paid the same.  The nurse at my cardiologist's office makes double what the office workers make, as well she should.  She is invaluable to him, the office workers are far from being as qualified.  

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit @michaels39301  You are a pure liar.  I bought a policy and kept it for over a year.  When I turned 65, I had Medicare so I had no need for the ObamaCare policy any longer.  In fact, it would have   probably been illegal to have them both.  I bought a policy and went to a Dr. because I hadn't seem one for   over 3 years due to having no insurance.  How could I have known what they would find with their testing and analysis?  And how could I have known what it would cost, if I had no idea that what they would find?


Insurance is not welfare.  If you say it is, then you are a welfare baby yourself.



disenwit
disenwit

@michaels39301@disenwitIf they are charging by the hour, they could just keep cutting and even change the oil and it would be reaonsable... but not if they just charge $50,000 for the thing if it takes one hour and then another $50,000 for a different procedure like changing the oil so a 2 hour deal is $100,000... that's the system now that you like and Obamacare will increase.. and yes you did scam if you bought a policy in effect for 9 days and paid nothing more than one months premium for something you knew was going to cost $50,000 at the current hospital rates... and you knew it and took the welfare program, or theft, whichever you want to call it.

disenwit
disenwit

@michaels39301@disenwit Obamacare costs - website $600 million, plus millions per year operation and maintenance - Navigators to explain it, est. 26,000 * $50,00 = $1.3 billion per year -  estimated 15,000 IRS agents at $70,000 = $1.005 billion per year -  unknown but huge sum to write the 15,000 pages of regulations... and more.. All of those costs caused by Obamacare, not one penny from them provides health care, and will not in the future... just more cost to spread the money around.   My local doctor is hiring 2 book-keepers to comply with the additional paperwork.  Only has 2 nurses and one bookkeeper now, and so the costs go up about 66% for the same health care services.   Get it Michael's or do you think all these extra government and medical employees just provide healthcare, and at lower costs?   And you say you don't scam... you are a joke!!

michaels39301
michaels39301

@CORedleg Who said anything about my having medicaid?  Just for your information, I have Medicare.  And I paid taxes all my working years, including now while I am retired, just so I can enjoy my own Medicare that I already paid into for many, many years.  So you do the same, and keep your faulty opinions to yourself.  


And you are wrong about saying the ACA doesn't address costs.  They put limits on almost all procedures, such that anything in excess of some percentage, automatically has to go through a review board to be valid, and could be turned down.


And yes I too know several people with high hospital bills, but your several and my several make up what PERCENTAGE out of the 300 million plus citizens here in the U.S.?  It is a very tiny percentage, not insignificant, but still tiny.


Finally, my happiness has nothing to do with yours, nor does yours with me.  We each reap what we deserve. 

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit @michaels39301 Take a big bite of nothing, since that's the value of your words.  You cannot honestly say that "ObamaCare just loads on more costs in the same way" when ObamaCare just officially started.  Show me the bookwork and calculations where these costs have been charged and collected  You cannot, because it hasn't happened, and it will not happen.  I suppose you want hospitals to fire the majority of their employees so they can show that ObamaCare really cut down on the book-keeping necessities.  Book-keeping is a long-lost practice.  They now have computers, in case you are unaware.


And neither I, or anyone else with a pre-existing condition, scammed anyone or any program.  It is all of us with those conditions that have been scammed over the YEARS by the insurers.  They never took money from any of us, they simply refused us coverage, so they could make more profits by insuring the relatively healthy population only.  Just to give you a comparable scenario, it would be like a bank only accepting customers whose accounts exceeded $1 million.  


And you want hospitals to charge by the hour.  What a joke.  And how could they tell you up front the price of open-heart surgery?   How would they account for complications?  If you were having open-heart surgery and a complication occurred, I suppose you would understand if they said, just sew him up, our advertised price won't cover these expenses.        

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit @michaels39301 I don't lie.  I said I paid my first month's premium around the 15th of August and my coverage began on September 1st of 2010.  My first doctor's visit and surgery were all before the 10th of that same month.  I surely didn't ask them for a refund after my surgery was complete.  I kept the insurance for over a year, until I turned 65 and went on Medicare.  

CORedleg
CORedleg

I find this comment so selfish its hard to reply. I'm so glad I go to work and pay taxes so you can have your medicaid while so many others lose their coverage! I know several people with $150k + hospital bills. It doesn't take much especially since ACA didn't actually address costs. As long as YOU are happy I guess all of us should be right?

disenwit
disenwit

@michaels39301@disenwit No, they don't charge by the hour.  Once the government made employer insurance deductible, but not individual's and created HMO's, by the help of Jack Kennedy in Massachusetts by the way, it, the government divorced most people from the costs, and created agencies for insurance companies to deal with to control the costs.  Naturally no one could tell if the insurance premiums had any relation to reality and so prices became meaningless.  And Obamacare will make this process far worse, as it hides everything with subsidies, taxes, welfare payments, Medicare, Medicaid administration, and vastly confusing websites.  And so it is the stupid President that is going to make things hugely worse, and folks like you that will take advantage of the system by scamming about pre-existing conditions, and your first post proves that despite your attempts to say, oh gee I'm really a nice honest guy!  If hospitals charged by the hour and told us the prices of the time and the tests, things would be a heck of a lot cheaper.  Can't do that though when the bills have to go to the insurance companies, and be checked by bureaucrats in state government, and in Washington and then approved and sent back to the insurance company who then pays the hospital... and of course the hospital has to maintain hundreds of employees for the book-keeping all of which has nothing to do with providing the health care.  And as everyone is finding, Obamacare just loads on more costs in the same way.. Everyone gets screwed except the politicians and the gimme, gimme guys like you that will scam the system.  Have fun!

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit @michaels39301  I did take advantage of ObamaCare, but by "advantage" I meant I actually found health insurance rather than 100% denial in the past.  How does that represent gimme, gimme, gimme?  You are at the height of ignorance when you say "Eliminating pre-existing illness as a limitation on getting insurance to cure it means that you approve of welfare, since it is not insurance if you've never paid for it".  As I said before, getting insurance does NOT CURE a pre-existing condition.  For sure, in my case, my condition will never be cured.  It can only be kept in control with a pacemaker, and that is how the doctors are doing it.  


I never paid 10 days premium, NEVER.  I always paid and still pay 1 month at a time for my health insurance.  I suppose YOUR insurer allows you to pay by the day.  Must be one of those policies that costs only a little, and actually covers even less.



disenwit
disenwit

@michaels39301@disenwit You started your whole rant by saying that the pre-existing illness exclusion was wonderful, and that you had taken advantage of it... and then you tried to back away from that gimme, gimme argument.  Eliminating pre-existing illness as a limitation on getting insurance to cure it means that you approve of welfare, since it is not insurance if you've never paid for it... So, if you complain that you had to pay for insurance, it's only because you didn't get it for free since that's the policy you think is so wonderful you list it as No. 1 of the good things in Obamacare...   And so you try to justify it in your own mind because you paid 10 days premium... gee, but I had insurance before you say... but why didn't you keep paying instead of running your scam...??  You clearly are the gimme, gimme guy up front!!

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit @michaels39301  First off, hospitals do NOT charge by the hour.  Have you ever been in one? I'm not talking about a mental hospital either.  Hospital bills are determined by how many and what type of procedures/tests you are subjected to during your stay.  Dollars per hour are not a part of it.

And read your own words above.  "...that ObamaCare will simply make worse".  This proves that ObamaCare is not responsible for how things are now, as that onus belongs to the insurers.  Without ObamaCare though, I am sure his bill would have been even worse, or he might have even been denied coverage by his insurer, as those specifics of ObamaCare are already in effect and have been for awhile.


The only thing "simply stupid" is the fact that the insurance industry has been allowed to do whatever they please for profits, until the President passed the ACA.  Things are now changing, and hopefully they will go on much further for the better, but at least the President had the intelligence to take this first huge step.

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit @michaels39301 yes I do say that what is good for me is also good for everyone, BUT who in the world told you that anything I got was free?  I have always paid a significant premium for my healthcare, even for ObamaCare, until I could get on Medicare.  My premiums were in the $600-$400/month range during the time I was on it, so that was no giveaway.  All I have been touting about it was the fact that they covered my surgery after less than 10 days of my receiving coverage, but I maintained my policy for over a year before I went to Medicare.  It was during that year, that the premiums dropped from $600 to $400, and that was/is another advantage of the ACA.  My wife was already on Medicare when I first got this insurance, so that premium was for me alone.  


The bottom line is that no one GAVE me anything.  I paid my premiums just like any other policy owner is supposed to do.  You better look in the mirror when you write "gimme, gimme" because that sure seems to be YOUR outlook. 

disenwit
disenwit

@michaels39301 Local fellow here just had a stent operation... was in hospital about 70 hours, bill was $58,000  or about $825 an hour!   This is because of the government interventions in the insurance and billing business, that Obamacare will simply make much worse... phony billing because no one is paying!  That's what you think is so wonderful.  No bankruptcy, just spend as much in administrative time to get it back to a reality number, and thus double the real cost of the health care, by adding on the redistribution part... simply stupid!

disenwit
disenwit

@michaels39301Michaels39301 confesses... what's good for me is good for the USA!!   As long as I get something for free that's good for me, as I belong to the gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme's!

michaels39301
michaels39301

@Patrick @michaels39301 @disenwit You are the one suffering, suffering from a blown ego. The U.S. already has both some level of extended waiting times AND a shortage of doctors.  But there were always E.R.s where it finally became the "norm" to go to the E.R. for even a sore throat.  And these physicians that are having a movement to convert to cash only are sickos.  How many Americans carry around hundreds, or even thousands of dollars just in case they might need some medical care?  If they say, "No cash, no treatment" their practices will likely fail.  And how many of the poor could even come up with enough cash for an office visit?  Our country was founded by those who never even envisioned the day when someone had to pay in full for their treatment or surgery or whatever upon receiving the service.  Nor could they ever have envisioned the way it is today.  So don't try and tell me that our country was founded with the principle that everyone pays cash for everything upon its receipt, and never would consider such a thing as an outstanding balance.

Patrick
Patrick

@michaels39301@disenwit The condition that you suffer from is blind ignorance. Figures don't lie but liars can figure. You can shape statistics to substantiate any opinion, but the fact of the matter is countries with socialized medicine have extended waiting times and a shortage of qualified practioners that is why people came to US was for superior medical care. The best news is they will still be able to get it as there is a movement by many physicians to convert to a cash only business. This is the principal our great country was founded on.

michaels39301
michaels39301

@Brucew56 Signed up and numbers will soon be released.  I'll make a hefty wager with you that the number is closer to 2.5 million than it is to 6.  Yeah Congress gets a subsidy, but millions of regular citizens do too.  I was simply stating that since the House Speaker, at least for now, who has been a major detractor of ObamaCare, even got it himself.  If he thought it was so bad, why didn't he show everyone what a big boy he is by going to a company and buying his own policy?  But no, big John dropped to his knees and said "I'll take it".

Brucew56
Brucew56

Signed up, but the lying WH won't release the number that are COVERED, probably 6. Congress has to sign up according to the law, but they are getting a 72% subsidy.

michaels39301
michaels39301

@disenwit @michaels39301 @Brucew56 I sure wish you would find a pre-school that had the type of teacher who could convince your little mind how ignorant it is.  I bet your insurance policy today, with whoever dares to cover you, includes maternity as well as hysterectomy coverages, so show me any one person in your family who has used both these services.  I am retired, so I am no longer employed by anybody, let alone a hospital where I never worked before. Just keep dreaming, cuz that has to be the reason for your rantings.

disenwit
disenwit

@michaels39301@Brucew56 Michaels39301 loves to list all the millions and millions of folks who get wonderful freebees for insurance that covers everything, including dog-sled injuries... and of course that includes maternity coverage for the 75 year old guy, and condoms for the 65 year old ladies, and all that good stuff... and those folks are so happy to pay for all the coverages that they don't want or need, of course!  And of course, in his limited world there are only two policies... one for dog-sleds and one for everything including all the problems of the world - and you don't even have to buy either one till after the dog-sled accident.   Wow, isn't he a genius.. knows all.... and he even lives in a town with 3 hospitals, and works at all of them!